FD：Yes Tourism is a development tool but only if it is fair trade，and it is very seldom fairtrade，most of the time it gives only menial jobs to the local population，while destroying the culture，and while the tour operators are getting rich.
第一节 遗产、旅游与联合国教科文组织 (3)
是的，旅游的确是发展手段，但是只有在公平的交易下才是，然而目前的情况是公平交易太少了，很多时候，旅游业在破坏旅游地文化的同时，只给当地人低下的工作，而老板却变得富有。
FB：True，but that comes from the nature itself of the industry，it is very big and very fragmented，nobody is responsible，and they look for the very short term.Contrary to many other industries，for example，which plan for the next 1020 years.Tourism of course it brings development，we are in favor of development，but still，one needs to take the hidden costs in consideration.The Galapagos per example are going to be put on the endangered list this year because of the situation out there.And what is the trigger of the crisis？Tourism，because tourism brings migration of people，overuse of resources，land consumption，urbanization etc......
的确如此，但是这源自这个产业本身的特点，它非常庞大，而且非常零碎，没有人负责，而且他们就追求短期的利益。比如，与汽车工业相比，汽车行业通常要为10-20年后规划。旅游业的确带来了发展，我们喜欢发展。但是，人们仍然需要考虑那些隐性的代价。比如，加拉帕戈斯群岛今年将被列入濒危名录，因为情形就是走到了这一步。是什么引发了这个危机呢？是旅游，因为旅游导致人口迁移，资源过度使用，土地消耗，都市化......
FD：Ha，you have to read the article I wrote about the grand Canyon which is exceptionally well managed，the main tool is to figure carrying capacity，then zoning depending of the level of fragility of the environment and limitation by advance booking.
啊，那您得读读我写的一篇关于大峡谷的文章，那里管理得出奇地好，主要的手段是控制承载力，然后是根据易受破坏的程度划分出旅游区，通过提前预订来限制游客量。
FB：I totally agree，carrying capacity，zoning and advance booking do work well but it is not always easy to organize sites in such a way.
我完全同意，承载力、分区和提前预订很有效果，但是要以这种方式来组织一个遗产地通常是不容易的。
FD：Do you have any suggestion for Chinese researchers on world heritage？Or any suggested topics and approaches in other field which you think are important？
您对中国研究世界遗产的研究者们有什么建议吗？或者您认为重要的研究主题和切入点？
FB： I have visited some Chinese sites and they are packed.I went to the Huang Shan a couple of years ago and，even if it is very beautiful，it was really too crowded for me to have a pleasurable experience.
In relation to tourism China is in a very specific position having to face two kinds of growing pressure.As the economy is growing very fast more and more people can afford to travel and also more roads and airports are being built.But Chinese people are still relatively poor so the very large majority of them can only travel in China.On the other hand，China is still very mysterious to most of the people from abroad，and it is still relatively cheap，so China will soon receive more international tourists than any other county in the world.This is why tourism is growing faster in China than anywhere else in the world.So I think the government，not only the Chinese researchers on WH，should dedicate large amount of recourses to understanding and researching how to manage the flow of tourists.If not，tourism will become an overwhelming problem.
The idea that I have heard of developing and protecting，with the UNESCO standards，at least some of the 85 Chinese sites now inscribed on the UNESCO tentative list is certainly positive，that will reduce the pressure on the 30 or so Chinese sites already listed on the WH List.Also，changing the holiday system of the 2"golden weeks"，as I heard was being studied，would be helpful.But I am afraid all that will not be enough，China will have to come up with innovative solutions of its own，has it has done many times in its history，this time to control a flow of tourism of unprecedented magnitude.
我到过中国的一些遗产地，太拥挤了。几年前，我去过黄山，虽然它非常美丽，但是那里实在是太拥挤了，难以让我拥有愉悦的体验。
说到旅游，中国处于一个非常特殊的境况，得面临两种与日俱增的压力。随着经济非常快速地增长，越来越多的人有钱去旅游，因此需要修建越来越多的道路和机场。但是中国人仍然不是那么富裕，所以只能在国内旅游。另一方面，中国对绝大多数外国人而言仍然非常神秘，(旅资)也相对便宜，所以中国很快将接纳大量来自世界各国的境外游客。这就是为什么中国的旅游业比世界上其他地方发展速度快的原因。所以我认为不仅仅是中国研究世界遗产的学者，中国政府也应该付出大量的资源和精力去理解和研究如何管理游客"大潮"。否则，旅游业将变成一个势不可挡的、压倒一切的大问题。
我听到过的中国过去关于发展和保护的理念，以及联合国教科文组织世界遗产预备名单中至少85个符合联合国教科文组织标准的中国遗产地提名，都具有相当积极的意义，这将减少中国30来个已列入名录的世界遗产地的压力。另外，我听说正在研究改革两个"黄金周"的休假制度(译者注：国务院已于2007年12月17日正式通过了改革草案)，这也会很有帮助。但是我担心所有这些都还不够，中国还得研究出自己的具有创新性的解决之道，正如中国历史上多次做到的一样，这一次是控制空前庞大的旅游大潮。
FD： What are your priorities and main concerns in coming years？
请谈谈你们近期的优先工作领域和核心问题。
